에피소드 102: Building Workplace Culture Assessment with AI

You can't pick and choose how you want to analyze your organization's culture. What we've done is to say it's generic and as a result it means that we can compare organizations across different sectors and sizes because it's all the same question set. Because there is an element of standardization, we can bring the cost down so that it becomes more affordable.

Hi, my name is Demetri Panici and I'm a content creator, agency owner, and AI enthusiast. You're listening to the AI Agents Podcast brought to you by Jform and featuring our CEO and founder, Aytekin Tank. This is the show where artificial intelligence meets innovation, productivity, and the tools shaping the future of work. Enjoy the show.

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the AI Agents Podcast. In this episode, we have James Leley, the CEO and founder of Cultivative. How are you doing today, James?

I'm good, thanks. How are you, Demetri?

I'm doing awesome. Well, just to get things started, I really want to get a little bit of background on you. How did you get into AI in the first place? Tell us a little bit about what that story was like for you and then we'll get into more about Cultivative.

Yeah. So I guess they come together anyway because that was my journey into AI. I was hugely passionate about organizational culture, having had experiences running a business where the culture, through no deliberate action, became a little bit siloed and maybe a little bit toxic. Then we turned that around.

I've also been on the receiving end of toxic cultures and I'm sure many people have been in similar situations. What I really wanted to do was to find a way to quickly, cheaply, and creatively quantify and analyze an organization's culture. Pretty much the only way to do that is through using AI.

That was really our entry into the world of AI, which was just around analyzing a large data set that had been collected deliberately, blending quantitative and qualitative information to build a comprehensive picture of what's going on within an organization's workplace culture.

Interesting. So what was the main aha moment that triggered everything for you? Probably going back six, seven, eight years. It was a journey where, as a CEO, you rarely get to see the organization in its rawest form because when you walk in the room, everyone is on their best behavior since you're the boss.

What I ended up witnessing one day was a breakdown between teams. You could see animosity and people weren't on the same page. I realized we had some issues. I called my mentor and said, this is what's going on. He said, you've got some issues with the culture. Let me come in.

He interviewed everybody, built up a report around what's going on within the organization, and it wasn't great reading. I felt vulnerable because as every CEO, you are also the chief culture officer. So I was technically residing over the culture and it wasn't great.

The feedback was that we needed to go on a journey, and I really wanted to ask for help. We went on that journey, prioritized the culture, built it into systems and processes, changed how we interacted with each other, and created a better place to work.

Over a 12-month period, it was night and day in terms of the organization. We were more productive, innovating better, commercially more successful, and all metrics were moving in a positive direction. That was the aha moment of the importance of workplace culture.

We then exited that business and went into an organization where the culture was not great. It was really obvious what we had and what we had gone into. It was probably a combination of seeing a not great culture, going on a journey to embed a positive culture, and then seeing a not great culture again.

That was the aha moment because it meant I had a passion for that area. The journey we went on was to build out a framework and some tech to help organizations understand the culture they have so they can build the culture they want. The most important point is knowing where you are today because you can't build a culture unless you know your starting point.

There are many influences. Most organizations just don't ask the right questions, so they never really know. Especially in scaling businesses, culture is heavily influenced by the CEO or founder. As you grow, the culture becomes diluted because fewer people work directly with the CEO and can't emulate their behaviors or understand what's important.

It's about helping the CEO understand what's going on within the organization so they can fix leaks and build on strengths. That's basically what we've done.

Do you feel like a lot of companies are dropping the ball when it comes to culture, especially with the CEO being connected to it?

I think culture tends to fit within the human resource or people department. Sometimes it's like engagement and can be a box-ticking exercise where questions aren't inspiring or gathering real information. We're not asking the gritty questions, so you don't really know what's going on.

You get a bland 'yeah, we're okay' response, which can mean things are genuinely good or people just don't want to go into detail because they don't think action will be taken. You see trends but not what's driving them.

What we've done is ask a different set of gritty questions to get underneath the skin of the business, find out what's really going on, and build that picture into a full written narrative presented to the leadership team.

You've been around since November 2023. How did you get up and running so quickly? It feels like you've made solid waves and established yourself well in two years. Is that part of your culture, being fast moving?

We didn't spend time writing a business plan. That was deliberate because we wanted to bootstrap the business. I pulled together my old tech team and some new individuals, explained the vision, and we just got on with building stuff. Then we got it into the hands of organizations as quickly as possible.

The biggest mistake is trying to sell something too early. We gave it away to get feedback and iterated on that, which helped shape the products and decide our go-to-market route.

The original business plan targeted real organizations, CEOs, and leadership teams, but they tend to be so busy culture is a bit of a non-entity. They don't know what it means or why to spend time or money on it.

In the UK, we have many fractional HR directors and chief people officers who work with organizations of various sizes and understand recruitment, churn rate, productivity, and other markers underpinned by culture issues.

By working through that channel, we can be brought in to fix problems and have someone act on the information to support the business. Many CEOs get information but don't know how to take it forward.

When I got hold of this information, I knew what to do to build out the culture and put systems in place. But not all CEOs are programmed like that or interested in that area, so they need a helping hand.

I didn't want to build a consultancy using tech and people because I needed scale. To get scale, it had to be easily accessible by organizations, whether by the CEO, leadership team, or fractional chief people officers and HR consultants.

What is it like working as a company in the UK AI space, not being in Silicon Valley or the US where a lot of innovation happens?

I've never worked in the US, so it's difficult to compare. AI is a bit behind the curve compared to the US, where big innovations come from, and to some extent China. But many UK organizations are utilizing AI in small ways to create efficiencies or bring niche products to market, which is what we're doing.

People are broadly aware of what AI can do, but there's still skepticism and distrust. Organizations are embracing AI because it allows things to be done quicker, faster, and cheaper.

Most people I interview are stateside and want to be in Silicon Valley. It's interesting to hear your perspective from the UK.

Regarding culture assessments, it feels like quantifying the invisible. Traditional culture assessments felt subjective. How does your AI-powered platform quantify something as intangible as workplace culture across key areas?

We engaged academics and leadership professionals to build a framework with questions that have numerical responses. We ask to what extent everyone is treated equally, for example, and collect open-ended explanations underneath.

We take the scoring and underpin a narrative that talks about issues and challenges, quantifying that across the organization. It's about taking what you would have done previously and adding a narrative.

It seems valuable but hard to pin down. Culture is intangible, so many don't give it the respect it deserves because they don't understand it. We're trying to show it's about getting the basics right: how the company is led, how people are managed, how they interact, and standards across the organization.

You've coined the term culture pull score. What does that mean?

It's the quantifiable measure of how healthy and strong an organization's culture is, built from gathered insights. It's a number that gives a grading of how strong and healthy the culture is.

What variables make up that score?

All responses and individual questions feed into that single measure. You get a breakdown of responses and a narrative, but those responses influence the score.

I saw a case study with Hogan Group where you helped test assumptions in a family-run business. What surprised them most about what AI revealed versus what they thought they knew?

Leaders often have a gut feel about where challenges and pinch points are and how well they lead. They start with assumptions, then deploy our tech, gather responses, build a picture, and present it back to the organization.

It either affirms they're right in some areas or shows their assumptions are wrong. Many organizations are unaware of what's really going on in their eyes versus the workforce's.

When you're around employees in meetings, they're on their best behavior, so you don't get a true picture. Only certain information makes its way up, giving a distorted view.

We provide raw data stripped of identifying info to maintain anonymity, giving people comfort to be honest and provide a more accurate picture.

If a CEO asks if people enjoy working there, no one will say they don't or that they're looking for another job. So you get a distorted view that feeds into your gut feel.

Are those assumptions rose-tinted because people are always on their best behavior?

Leaders are naturally positive and believe they're doing the best things, but that might not have the right impact. How people are treated and managed can be different and change over time as the organization scales.

I remember starting my own company and the difference between a couple of people versus a larger size. It changes so much as the company grows.

Many companies do employee surveys and use AI. What makes your combination of anonymous assessment and AI analysis different from competitors in HR tech?

We've created a standardized way to assess culture. You can't pick and choose how to analyze it. Our generic question set allows comparison across sectors and sizes, and standardization brings costs down to make it more affordable.

What new features or things are you most excited about in your product?

The concept overall is realistic. Some large organizations take six months to get survey results back, which is too long. We focus on speed: collecting data, analyzing it with AI quickly, and delivering full written analysis within hours so organizations can start positive change immediately.

If culture issues go unaddressed, they can get bad quickly. I worked at a marketing agency where rumors of a private equity buyout leaked, causing vibes to change, layoffs, and people leaving.

Trust is a massive influence. When leadership isn't honest with the workforce, trust is destroyed and culture takes a nose dive. You have to admit mistakes and be open to come back from it, or else culture declines.

Beyond business metrics, what's the cultural transformation you hope to create in the broader business world?

We set a target to help 10,000 organizations build awesome cultures because we saw the power of transforming culture. It positively impacts business metrics and makes a better place to work, affecting the lives of employees. The starting point is understanding the culture you have.

Company culture strikes a nerve with me. I'm happy you're helping people find and improve misses in their system.

You're using AI to improve workplace culture at a time when AI is disrupting jobs and is non-human. Has that irony been lost on you?

It's not lost on me. In the US, the impact is more visible, but in the UK, we haven't seen mass redundancies. HR and leadership consultants want to do this work but manual analysis is tedious and expensive.

AI enables consultants to offer this work to clients and provide real value where before budgets or time constraints prevented it. We're helping people make the world a better place in a small way.

We're not putting people out of jobs at this stage, but I understand the concern.

AI can help the human aspect by freeing up time from robotic, repetitive tasks, allowing people to do more interactive and in-depth work. Humans have bias, but AI is objective and provides a clean view of the organization.

On a personal note, what is your favorite AI tool you use day-to-day?

I use ChatGPT mostly. If I struggle or see flaws, I seek other tools, but ChatGPT is my go-to for most things.

I recently found Crisp AI, a phone call recorder that removes background noise better than others, allowing clearer meetings on the go.

Find me on LinkedIn, James Leley, and visit cultivative.com. We'll put details in the description. Please connect and check out our tech.

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